Coming off my conversation with Lawrence Lepard, where we unpacked the broken foundation of fiat money, I wanted to push the question further: If the rules of the game are shifting, how do we navigate from here?  

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In this episode, I sit down with Alan Beaulieu of ITR Economics and Kim Clark to keep searching for what’s real — to make sense of where we actually are in the cycle and what business owners can do to design intelligently within it. The math behind the current system doesn’t work forever. Debt, demographics, and policy are pushing us toward an eventual reset. But rather than getting lost in the noise, Alan grounds us in data and context. This isn’t about doom — it’s about orientation. We dig into what’s true, what’s hype, and what owners can actually do: build moats around cash flow, people, and productivity, lead with clarity through uncertainty, and use this next downturn to do good—for employees, customers, and community. Because you can’t control the macro, but you can design within it. 

What We Covered 

• Luke Groman's thesis on whether the US debt spiral has truly started. 

• What the bond market's strength means to the economy. 

• External triggers like China's real estate collapse could spark the real trouble. 

• The shift to a debt-refinancing economy that's hooked on endless asset inflation. 

• Forecast of a big inflationary bust followed by deflationary reset in the late 2030s. 

• Boomer healthcare costs peaking as the political window to tackle debt. 

• Global currency wars where everyone's debasing, but the US is inflating bondholders away. 

• AI's net positive on jobs short-term, held back by power and water limits. 

• Owner strategies: Building a moat around cash-flow businesses vs. prepping for sale. 

• Downturn as a chance to visibly do good and fix capitalism's rep through employee and community bets. 

Who This Is For 
For any business owner who feels like the game keeps changing, this episode will help you understand why. If you’ve ever wondered why your hard work isn’t compounding the way it should, or what Bitcoin actually means beyond speculation, this conversation connects the dots between money, time, and ownership. 

Kim Clark is a sales and marketing strategist who helped scale ITR Economics from a founder-led advisory firm to a professionally managed company that exited at eight figures. As head of sales and marketing, she built the firm’s first CRM, content strategy, and inbound engine—moving the company from personality-based selling to a system built on data, automation, and strategic execution. Today, she works with business owners to build marketing engines that align with their strategy, team, and long-term cash flow goals—so they can grow without chaos and delegate without losing visibility. Her frameworks are directly aligned with the "Maximize Growth" track inside the Build a Valuable Business module of the iBD™ Magic Model.   
 
Alan Beaulieu is a globally recognized economist and partner at ITR Economics, a firm with 94.7% forecasting accuracy over 80 years. For more than three decades, Alan has guided executives worldwide through all economic cycles, providing clear, actionable insights on markets, strategy, and investment. A respected speaker, author, and advisor, his data-driven approach helps companies anticipate change, protect value, and maximize profitability. 

Chapters:  

• (00:00 ) Navigating economic reality with Alan and Kim


• (02:31 ) Breaking down Luke Groman podcast on debt spiral thesis


• (05:28 ) Economic triggers and the domino effect from external forces


• (08:28 ) Geopolitical shifts pushing countries toward China India and Russia


• (11:30 ) Currency wars and the melt-up versus crash scenario


• (13:45 ) Bond market strength and why crisis isn't imminent yet


• (21:15 ) Fundamental flaw of debt cycle leads to inevitable bust


• (27:51 ) Mutually assured destruction through global economic interconnectivity and deglobalization


• (30:22 ) Deflation coming in next decade as boomers die off


• (42:18 ) Strategic fork for owners, building moat versus preparing sale


• (48:23 ) Noah's Ark strategy with cash flow, benefits and automation


• (50:53 ) Do good philosophy and business owners' greatest opportunity ahead


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Resources: 
Kim Clark LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimberly-clark-79634845/ 
Alan Beaulieu LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/alan-beaulieu-8343283 
Ryan Tansom Website https://ryantansom.com/